The Irish pay lower taxes

Another episode in Skypeland that had me shaking my head in amazement revolved around an Irish gentleman who claimed that the Irish pay lower taxes than the Americans. This was a bit of a surprising claim to hear, so I endeavored to do a bit of investigation. I found that the Irish pay taxes, and lots of them. Most products have a 21.5% Valued Added Tax added to them. Inheritance money is treated like regular income, and has regular income taxes applied to it, and in addition a 22% CAT tax. The Irish also pay a 1-9% stamp tax, and a 1% share tax on holdings of stock. Since January, 2009 there is an addition 1-3% Levy tax. Income up to 34,500 euros is taxed at a 20% marginal rate (plus the extra levy tax of 1%). Income in excess of 34,500 euros is taxed at a 41% marginal rate. There is also a tax credit of 1830 euros that can be taken, in the case of a single taxpayer.

It should be a matter of some amazement to most Americans to hear that someone would be willing to claim that these Irish tax rates are lower than American tax rates. But nevertheless, this Irish "gentleman" was proud to spout this loudly and angrily, over and over, yelling and screaming and cursing and attacking anyone who said that this claim did not sound very convincing.

When I looked up and quoted the government figures, the Irishman became incredibly angry and said it was unfair to look up the figures to verify his claims. Oh really? Well I think that says more about the reliability of this particular Irishman more than anything else.

Here is some text conversation on the topic with the gentleman in question:

[4/4/2009 5:38:07 PM] B says: amazing how all the Irish government websites are wrong, isn't it?

[4/4/2009 5:38:12 PM] B says: I would complain if I were you

[4/4/2009 5:38:33 PM] B says: you are wasting tax money on government websites that are all incorrect


[4/4/2009 5:38:35 PM] B says: over and over and over

[4/4/2009 5:38:39 PM] B says: your tax data

[4/4/2009 5:38:42 PM] B says: your immigration data

[4/4/2009 5:38:45 PM] B says: it is all incorrect

[4/4/2009 5:38:49 PM] B says: amazing

[4/4/2009 5:39:28 PM] N says: what are u trying to proove u good with google

[4/4/2009 5:39:38 PM] B says: why dont you complain?

[4/4/2009 5:39:48 PM] B says: complain that your government is publishing bad data

[4/4/2009 5:39:56 PM] B says: it is a national disagrace I think

[4/4/2009 5:39:56 PM] N says: complaine about what

[4/4/2009 5:40:33 PM] N says: so if u feel that way send them a letter

[4/4/2009 5:40:53 PM] B says: 41% income tax rate over 34,500 Euros and a 1 percent tax levy surcharge starting in January 2009

[4/4/2009 5:40:59 PM] B says: and amazingly, that is incorrect

[4/4/2009 5:41:07 PM] B says: so why do they put it on the government website I wonder?

[4/4/2009 5:41:42 PM] N says: tell them not me i not the goverment

[4/4/2009 5:42:01 PM] N says: u got ur nickers in a twist

[4/4/2009 5:42:58 PM] B says: I will be glad to immortalize your brilliant analysis in my blog

[4/4/2009 5:43:06 PM] B says: amazing how your government always fucks up

[4/4/2009 5:43:13 PM] B says: the census is wrong

[4/4/2009 5:43:23 PM] B says: the education statistics are incorrect

[4/4/2009 5:43:30 PM] N says: i dont care nobody reads it

[4/4/2009 5:43:30 PM] B says: the tax department publishes the wrong figures

[4/4/2009 5:43:31 PM] B says: amazing

[4/4/2009 5:43:36 PM] B says: good for you

[4/4/2009 5:43:50 PM] B says: you have penetrated into the depths with your brilliant analysis

[4/4/2009 5:43:53 PM] B says: we are all impressed

[4/4/2009 5:44:12 PM] N says: out also in ur blogs that u are always depressed

[4/4/2009 5:44:21 PM] B says: oh yes?

[4/4/2009 5:44:28 PM] B says: you have read that have you?

[4/4/2009 5:44:33 PM] B says: I am always depressed?

[4/4/2009 5:44:47 PM] B says: Oh did it describe it?

[4/4/2009 5:44:54 PM] B says: wow you are a doctor now

[4/4/2009 5:44:56 PM] N says: no B never read ur blogs

[4/4/2009 5:44:59 PM] B says: a psychoanalyst

[4/4/2009 5:45:02 PM] B says: you just said you did

[4/4/2009 5:45:08 PM] B says: you are a psychiatrist

[4/4/2009 5:45:15 PM] B says: and you pay less tax than any American

[4/4/2009 5:45:16 PM] N says: it not hard to fathom that out

[4/4/2009 5:45:17 PM] B says: impressive

[4/4/2009 5:45:29 PM] B says: must be Irish English

[4/4/2009 5:45:32 PM] B says: "fathom" it out

[4/4/2009 5:46:02 PM] B says: yes we know that the 0.5% nonEuropean immigrant level that Ireland has greatly exceeds the number of nonEuropean immigrants in the USA

[4/4/2009 5:46:09 PM] B says: I remember that from your last brilliant analysis

[4/4/2009 5:46:37 PM] B says: and of course the US is unfair to Irish people because we do not allow more immigrants from Ireland

[4/4/2009 5:46:39 PM] B says: we are so unfair

[4/4/2009 5:46:42 PM] N says: B keep going u will run urself out

[4/4/2009 5:46:43 PM] B says: yes brilliant

[4/4/2009 5:46:55 PM] B says: No I am glad to get more material to showcase your brilliance

[4/4/2009 5:47:09 PM] B says: after all, we all know it is a crime to look things up

[4/4/2009 5:47:18 PM] N says: and ur insanity

[4/4/2009 5:47:20 PM] B says: that is why the Guinness book of world records is banned in Ireland right?

[4/4/2009 5:47:29 PM] B says: it is illegal to have I understand

[4/4/2009 5:47:31 PM] B says: correct?

[4/4/2009 5:47:52 PM] N says: oh yes and google is banned and sex is banned also

[4/4/2009 5:47:54 PM] B says: the Irish do not believe in looking things up so they banned the book

[4/4/2009 5:48:08 PM] N says: deffinatly

[4/4/2009 5:48:14 PM] B says: Well why dont you try to tell the world that Ireland pays lower taxes than the US

[4/4/2009 5:48:17 PM] B says: and gets more for it

[4/4/2009 5:48:25 PM] B says: and Germany too

[4/4/2009 5:48:32 PM] B says: sounds like an amazing fact that others should know

[4/4/2009 5:48:44 PM] B says: you probably lived in the US for 20 years and germany for 20 years so you know them both well

[4/4/2009 5:48:55 PM] N says: oh the moon is out here

[4/4/2009 5:49:05 PM] B says: well maybe you lived there too

[4/4/2009 5:49:09 PM] B says: I don't know

[4/4/2009 5:49:18 PM] B says: how is the tax rate on the moon?

[4/4/2009 5:49:24 PM] N says: no live inballygobackwards

[4/4/2009 5:49:36 PM] B says: yes no taxes there

[4/4/2009 5:49:38 PM] B says: of course not

[4/4/2009 5:49:47 PM] B says: it is a tax shelter

[4/4/2009 5:49:49 PM] B says: a tax haven

[4/4/2009 5:49:51 PM] B says: it is well known

[4/4/2009 5:50:02 PM] N says: no just piss away

[4/4/2009 5:50:04 PM] B says: lower taxes than Luxembourg?

[4/4/2009 5:50:23 PM] B says: well you better check your facts before you start bragging next time

[4/4/2009 5:50:43 PM] B says: That is why the Irish first wrote the Guinness Book of World Records if I am not mistaken

[4/4/2009 5:50:49 PM] N says: B u in a tagent about time u went to sleep

[4/4/2009 5:50:51 PM] B says: to answer braggers like you

[4/4/2009 5:50:57 PM] B says: that is the purpose

[4/4/2009 5:51:08 PM] B says: to shut up people who brag and brag and brag with no data to back it up

[4/4/2009 5:51:18 PM] N says: whatever i said u gone into a freak

[4/4/2009 5:51:24 PM] B says: it is the middle of the day here

[4/4/2009 5:51:27 PM] B says: bright sunshine

[4/4/2009 5:51:29 PM] B says: hot

[4/4/2009 5:51:32 PM] B says: nice breeze

[4/4/2009 5:51:35 PM] B says: thank you very much

[4/4/2009 5:51:45 PM] N says: u still want to relax

[4/4/2009 5:52:00 PM] B says: IF Ireland was a tax haven it would be interesting

[4/4/2009 5:52:08 PM] B says: but unfortunately I see no evidence that it is a tax haven

[4/4/2009 5:52:10 PM] B says: Sorry

[4/4/2009 5:52:23 PM] B says: You better point me to a source that shows that Ireland is a tax haven I guess

[4/4/2009 5:52:27 PM] B says: because it sure is not obvious

[4/4/2009 5:52:38 PM] N says: B it saturday night here i dont mix pleasure with buisness

[4/4/2009 5:52:53 PM] B says: right

[4/4/2009 5:52:53 PM] B says: you just brag and brag and brag

[4/4/2009 5:52:55 PM] B says: i know that

[4/4/2009 5:52:58 PM] N says: anyways annoy somebody else

[4/4/2009 5:53:09 PM] B says: Just giving you one more chance

[4/4/2009 5:53:15 PM] B says: to show that I am incorrect

[4/4/2009 5:53:16 PM] B says: haha

[4/4/2009 5:53:19 PM] B says: but I guess you couldnt

[4/4/2009 5:53:30 PM] B says: I have to go with the government figures I am afraid

[4/4/2009 5:53:49 PM] N says: u always right i shouldnt forget

[4/4/2009 5:54:00 PM] B says: No I am not

[4/4/2009 5:54:08 PM] B says: I am willing to learn new things

[4/4/2009 5:54:18 PM] B says: but I will check out claims that are hard to believe

[4/4/2009 5:54:30 PM] B says: and the claim that Ireland is a tax haven is a bit hard to believe

[4/4/2009 5:54:31 PM] B says: sorry

[4/4/2009 5:55:02 PM] N says: B only thing u know u are always right

[4/4/2009 5:55:03 PM] B says: The claim that Ireland has more immigrants per capita than the US is a bit hard to believe as well

[4/4/2009 5:55:14 PM] B says: all these claims are a bit much

[4/4/2009 5:55:20 PM] B says: The US probably is less healthy

[4/4/2009 5:55:24 PM] B says: the US is probably fatter

[4/4/2009 5:55:29 PM] B says: the US is probably more violent

[4/4/2009 5:55:35 PM] B says: those I could believe

[4/4/2009 5:55:48 PM] B says: The US is probably dirtier

[4/4/2009 5:55:54 PM] N says: i never knew that

[4/4/2009 5:56:06 PM] B says: well I do not know the data but I would find those believable

[4/4/2009 5:56:23 PM] B says: but Ireland having a low tax rate is very hard to buy

[4/4/2009 5:57:09 PM] N says: B here something u wont believe i am a us citizen born there

[4/4/2009 5:57:25 PM] B says: well you didnt spend much time in the US I suspect

[4/4/2009 5:57:44 PM] B says: all countries have good points and bad points

[4/4/2009 5:57:59 PM] N says: have beign there for 3 years

[4/4/2009 5:58:02 PM] B says: but to ferret them out you have to look at the situation carefully

[4/4/2009 5:58:44 PM] N says: explaine dont understand what u mean

[4/4/2009 5:59:26 PM] B says: Look the US is good at some things

[4/4/2009 5:59:29 PM] B says: and awful at others

[4/4/2009 5:59:40 PM] B says: same with Ireland and Germany and France and India etc

[4/4/2009 5:59:48 PM] N says: i agree

[4/4/2009 5:59:53 PM] B says: but to understand the situation you have to look very carefully at the data

[4/4/2009 6:00:19 PM] B says: for example, on international exams students leaving school in the US rank at 30th-40th place

[4/4/2009 6:00:29 PM] B says: the US spends more per pupil on education

[4/4/2009 6:00:33 PM] B says: and gets terrible results

[4/4/2009 6:00:37 PM] B says: now that is disturbing

[4/4/2009 6:00:38 PM] N says: i have no prob but when somone says something u attack

[4/4/2009 6:00:39 PM] B says: but true

[4/4/2009 6:00:55 PM] B says: some want to claim that the US has the best education ...period

[4/4/2009 6:00:59 PM] B says: it has some good points


[4/4/2009 6:01:08 PM] B says: but overall it is very disturbing

[4/4/2009 6:01:11 PM] B says: a HUGE waste of money

[4/4/2009 6:01:31 PM] B says: one cannot fix the problems unless you can identify them clearly

[4/4/2009 6:01:41 PM] N says: its u that starts the argument

[4/4/2009 6:01:41 PM] B says: and believe me, we have problems that need to be fixed here

[4/4/2009 6:01:54 PM] B says: well if you make a claim, you better back it up with data

[4/4/2009 6:02:10 PM] B says: I can back up my claims about the strengths and weaknesses of the US education system with data

[4/4/2009 6:02:16 PM] N says: and when outsiders hear u they turn in discust

[4/4/2009 6:02:22 PM] B says: haha

[4/4/2009 6:02:28 PM] B says: that is why they call it "skypeassholes"

[4/4/2009 6:02:43 PM] N says: nobody listens to u

[4/4/2009 6:02:49 PM] B says: haha

[4/4/2009 6:03:09 PM] B says: Well I had a pretty large fan base for someone no one listened to

[4/4/2009 6:03:13 PM] B says: but sure if you say so

[4/4/2009 6:03:33 PM] N says: dream on

[4/4/2009 6:04:04 PM] N says: if u had u wouldnt be texting me

[4/4/2009 6:04:07 PM] B says: well we can no longer gauge it

[4/4/2009 6:04:11 PM] B says: since skypecasts are gone

[4/4/2009 6:05:54 PM] N says: in the end everyone from the outside had left u were only talking to the converted

[4/4/2009 6:06:22 PM] B says: oh yeah?

[4/4/2009 6:06:23 PM] B says: haha

[4/4/2009 6:06:25 PM] B says: oh ok

[4/4/2009 6:06:31 PM] B says: you can believe whatever you like

[4/4/2009 6:06:54 PM] N says: u know