Kuwait is the most conservative country

Every so often in Skypeland, I get a good look at some of the amazing ignorance and arrogance of the average person. A young married lady, the beautiful LK, has earned the nickname of "Stench mouth". LK has been in Kuwait with her husband for the last 18 months. She announced that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were the most "conservative countries in the Middle East".

She asked me if I agreed. I said that depends on what you define as the "Middle East" and how you define "conservative". She was quite dismissive of this answer, so I elaborated.

I said for example, if you view Afghanistan as part of the Middle East, which I do, I think that Afghanistan (or at least the parts controlled by the Taliban) is quite conservative because of

(1) the rules about beating women who smile or laugh in public and

(2) riots when women were allowed to go to school and

(3) public demands that women not be taught to read or write.

LK immediately responded that Afghanistan did not count since the "the Taliban are not Muslims". I disagreed politely, pointing out that the Deobandi version of Islam is what is followed by the Taliban, and they are definitely Muslims. However, this put her nose out of joint a bit; she was positive that there are no Muslims in the Taliban, and she did not like to be challenged since she lives in Kuwait and knows more and should not be disagreed with (of course, some Muslims like to define the Shiites or the Taliban or the Sunni Wahabi or the Salafis or the Sufis or the Turkish Muslims as nonMuslim too, but I do not think this is what she meant; she honestly believed that the Taliban did not follow the teachings of Mohammed or worship Allah or use the Koran etc. I have to admit that this seems completely off-topic; what does them being Muslims or not have to do with how conservative they are, or if they are in the Middle East? Some people seem to just be basically confused and willing to say anything to "win" an argument even if they sound ridiculous.).

LK then announced that Afghanistan also did not count since Afghanistan is not in the Middle East because it is "not one of the United Arab Emirates". I was astounded by this claim, since that would mean that Kuwait is not part of the Middle East, and Saudi Arabia is not in the Middle East, and Lebanon is not in the Middle East, and Israel is not in the Middle East, and Yemen is not in the Middle East, and so on. I asked her about this, but she stuck to her guns. She was positive she was correct and in fact a bit annoyed that I would disagree with her since, of course, she lives in Kuwait.

I was amazed, but she just laughed. She seemed to want to get back to flirting with two British "gentlemen" in the room. She giggled and cooed and preened excitedly to draw the attention of these males.

Then someone asked if women could drive in Kuwait. LK stated that they could, and also that women could drive in Saudi Arabia as well. I stated that I did not think women could drive in Saudi Arabia. This was met with derision, since of course LK lives in Kuwait and knows better than I ever could.

I was asked what I based my statement on, and I said that I talked regularly to two young Saudi sisters; one in high school and one in college, and that if women could drive in Saudi Arabia, it probably happened in the last two weeks. I was told that women in Saudi Arabia had been given the right to drive a year ago, which was news to me. I then was mocked sarcastically by LK for talking to these two Saudi women and it was suggested that this was impossible for me to do and that my information must be faulty, since, of course, LK lives in Kuwait.

LK made several sarcastic comments about how ignorant I was to disagree with her and claimed unequivocably that she had to know more than I did since she lived in Kuwait.

I was curious about this, so I went and found an article on the New York Times blogsite which had links to a BBC article and an ABC news report on this topic. This New York Times blog article stated that as recently as March 12, 2009, it was against the law for Saudi women to drive. Apparently all kinds of protests and requests aimed at getting the law changed over the last year or two have failed.

I tried to ask LK why she believed she was correct and why the New York Times, the BBC and ABC News were wrong. She asked me to read the blog article out loud. I did, while the two gentlemen she had been flirting with screamed constantly at me, calling me a "nonce" and a pansy and all sorts of other very offensive things. I guess they wanted a nice big fight, perhaps to show off for the lady they were trying to hit on. I ignored these two British morons and continued to read.

One of these "gentleman" claims to be an Irish heroin dealer who has just been bailed out of prison for stabbing someone over a heroin deal gone bad, and is awaiting trial (is this even true? who really knows...). He always appears online in an extremely inebriated and combative condition. The other is not as aggressive, but is someone who makes all sorts of jokes about homosexuality and anal sex and pedophilia and likes to expose himself on webcam for men and women and even pleasure himself for all to see, if they like (or maybe he is just giving us some examples of that fabled "british humor"). These two are clearly true representatives of the finest Britain has to offer. I can see why this young married lady was so excited at the prospect of flirting with them and getting their attention.

The moderator did not quiet the two gentlemen. In fact, he made it clear that I was to blame for the disruption, since by just reading the news article, I was "picking on" the alleged Irish drug dealer. The woman LK just laughed and wanted to get back to flirting with the charming drug dealer and the internet flasher. In fact, the moderator decided to mute me instead of the drug dealer when I requested that I be allowed to ask a question or two in peace. I was a bit frustrated, but at least I quickly understood everyone's position in this situation, I guess.

I decided it was pointless to continue with this charade, so I left. The one thing I learned is, some people can be incredibly stupid on occasion. Including the moderator, in this instance. And people can be quite pleased with their stupidity.

Addendum

There was a flurry of text messages after this episode and after I first posted this blog account. I was going to post expurgated versions of these text messages, but I erased them because a mutual friend requested that I remove them.

LK became extremely upset to see how she had been represented in this blog post and apparently logged off the internet crying. I am personally somewhat glad that she was upset, at least in some ways, because I think she should think carefully about what sort of impression she is giving out to others when she behaves in this kind of fashion. I offered to read and possibly post her written version of the events in this blog posting, but she said I was a "fucker" and worse, and said she was crying and miserable and would never return to Skypeland again.

Ah well. Payback is a bitch, you know.

Addendum II

The young lady LK reappeared a few days later to cackle and laugh maniacally and flirt and pretend to act offended. She again claimed to be angry about this blog post, so I invited her again for about the 10th time to write up her account of what had happened. She declined again. She said that she had agreed with my statements about women driving in Saudi Arabia, but that women could drive if accompanied by a male relative. I said this was possible, but asked for the evidence of this. None was forthcoming, of course.

LK claimed that I had not heard what I thought I heard, and that the impression I had of this episode was not the same as my account here. I would dearly love to know why she would think she would know better than me what my impression was, but I guess it is pretty typical. I was blamed for causing chaos by reading the article she asked me to read, while C screamed at me. Well, that is her version and I would again invite her to write it up. People's different impressions of a situation is well know, and called the Rashomon Effect.

Interestingly, J, a young lady who fancies herself as an expert in internet research and reason came to LK's aid with her discovery of a news article from a UK newspaper, dated January 21, 2008. This article claims that the driving ban will be lifted, but of course the articles I found from over a year later show that the ban has not yet been lifted.

What is more interesting is how this smug self-confident lady presented this evidence in a chat window associated with this particular room in Skypeland.

J: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1576182/Saudi-Arabia-to-lift-ban-on-women-drivers.html

J: Women can drive in Saudi Arabia

Because of her frantic efforts to "win" this battle or to help another woman "win", she somehow claimed that a year-old plan to lift the ban meant that the ban had been lifted, even when later articles show that it has not yet been lifted.

Two people mentioned that they had heard rumors that women were driving in Saudi Arabia, but not in the cities and towns, but out in the countryside. This could be true, but I have not heard of it previously. Perhaps if women are in areas without a lot of law enforcement, they can get away with violating this restriction.