I was in a religious cast in Skypeland a few days ago, and listened to a pair of ex-Catholic Hispanic gentlemen argue with each other strenuously about religious matters. One was a fundamentalist evangelical born-again Christian, and another had steeped himself in Eastern philosophies including Buddhism and Hinduism. The Eastern philosophy proponent claimed that Moses had been incorporated into the Old Testament from an earlier description of him in the Vedas (??!??).
I asked why God had made the Earth look old, by creating all kinds of evidence for an old Earth and old Universe, including Hubble shifts and dendrochronology and layers of snow and layers of mud at the ocean bottoms and plate tectonics and records of dynamo flipping and rings of coral growth that go back tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and even hundreds of millions of years into the past. Interestingly, since I did not rely on radioisotope dating examples, which creationists are used to dismissing, they had nothing to say.
When I asked why God might have made an old-looking earth if the earth is only 6000 years old, no one had an answer and all that they did was read passages out of Genesis over and over to me, claiming that this gave the answer ( I didn't hear an answer in these familiar passages, but this should be no surprise).
One combative man was contemptuous of the notion that the earth was only 6000 years old. He said the earth was much much older. When I asked him how old, he said it definitely was more than 6000 years old, but no more than 10,000 years. (Ah...I see... What a paragon of reason! What a scintillating analysis!)
When I stated that people were able to believe whatever they wanted to believe, but should not coerce others to believe as they do, no one knew what the word "coerce" meant. I said in the US, some efforts are underway to force others to believe extreme young earth creationist ideas using the power of the state, effectively at "gunpoint". This was met with a firestorm of criticism from a couple of creationists, and I said I would be glad to explain myself but I was clearly unable to. I tried a couple of times, but they were not interested in hearing it, so I did not try any further. However, I will put my response here.
My present understanding of the situation in most US states is that it is permitted to teach creationism as science in:
*home schools
*private schools
*religious schools
Also, it is perfectly fine to teach creationism in secular publicly-funded schools in the US in classes like:
*current events
*philosophy
*political science
*civics
*religion
*debate
*public speaking
*social studies
*sociology
*politics
and so on. Creationism is not science, according to well over 99% of the scientists in relevant fields, and every major scientific organization in the US and overseas, so it should not be taught as science:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution
Teachers are not required to teach creationism as science in most states in the US currently, although some exceptions might exist at the moment, depending on the status of assorted laws and lawsuits.
Teachers can teach creationism as science in secular publicly funded schools, but cannot be required to do so in most states and counties. Of course, teachers might be fired for doing so, so they must have the permission of their employers to do it, but if they have permission, there is no problem if they choose to teach creationism as science.
Creationists have attempted over and over in lawsuits and in the statehouse to make it illegal for teachers to refuse to teach creationism as science or in science class. They want the ability to put teachers that refuse in jail, using the power of the state. So far, they have mostly failed.
What is shocking to most foreigners to hear about the situation in the US is how few restrictions there are on the teaching of creationism in the US. It can be taught in most classes in most schools. It is only restricted from being taught as science in some schools, and then the only restriction is that teachers cannot be forced to teach it as science in most, but not all, states. The entire controversy revolves around whether creationists can force teachers in public secular, nonreligious schools to teach nonscience as science, and force teachers to promote the religion of a tiny segment of the US population at the point of a gun. This is what it is about-forcing someone who does not belong to your faith to subscribe to your faith, at gunpoint, and forcing someone else to pay for it, even if they disagree.
Addendum: Here is an interesting blog article on creationism in the US:
http://worldandnews.blogspot.com/2007_08_15_archive.html
Monday, October 15, 2007
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